Draft Answers to CDM Questionnaire [1 Attachment]

Indian Military Veterans
On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 5:22 PM, Ravindra Pathak <raviwarsha@gmail.com> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from Ravindra Pathak included below]
Dear All

Pension of the Armed Forces personnel has been the biggest casualty in most pay commissions. Little has been done to address the disadvantages of the “terms and Conditions of engagement” and the “retirement conditions”. A soldier retires healthier but dies younger than his counterparts is a testimony to this fact. In the pre independence era the pension of the Armed forces personnel ranged between 50 -100 % while that of his counterpart did not exceed 50%. It is a known fact that most Armed force personnel retire at a relatively young age. They find themselves out of job and the pension they get is quite inadequate considering the fact they have to shoulder burgeoning responsibilities. The problem is accentuated on the untimely demise of the pensioner. Towards this a study is being undertaken at College of Defence Management, Secunderabad for giving recommendation to the VII pay commission for enhancement of the pension.
2. This questionnaire is to be administered to both retired (including Next of Kin (NOK), if drawing family pension) and serving personnel (Lt Cols and above and JCO/OR if in last five years of their retirement in the present rank).
3. Recommendations given by CDM earlier were suitably projected in the VI pay commission resulting in overall benefit. A similar endeavor is being undertaken again.

I am attaching a copy of my answers to the questionnaire.(Less Personal details)


You may like to add and subtract and send to
xxandhu@yahoo.com

Pls do take five minutes to do the honors as it would benefit us a lot in the future.

Brgds

Pathak

QUESTIONNAIRE : PENSION IN RESPECT OF DEFENCE PERSONNEL

1.         Pension of the Armed Forces personnel has been the biggest casualty in most pay commissions.  Little has been done to address the disadvantages of the “terms and conditions of engagement” and the “retirement conditions”.  A soldier retires healthier but dies younger than his counterparts is a testimony of this fact.  In the pre independence era the pension of the Armed forces personnel ranged between 50-100% while that of his counterpart did not exceed 50%.  It is a known fact that most Armed Force personnel retire at a relatively young age.  They find themselves out of job and the pension they get is quite inadequate considering the fact they have to shoulder burgeoning responsibilities.  The problem is accentuated on the untimely demise of the pensioner.  Towards this a study is being undertaken at College of Defence Management, Secunderabad for giving recommendation to the VII pay commission for enhancement of the pension.

2.         This questionnaire is to be administered to both retired (including Next of Kin (NOK), if drawing family pension) and serving personnel (Lt Cols and above and JCO/OR if in last five years of their retirement in the present rank).

3.         Recommendations given by CDM earlier were suitably projected in the VI pay commission resulting in overall benefit.  A similar Endeavour is being undertaken again.

_____________________________________________________________

PART 1: PERSONAL PARTICULARS

Rank    Cdr   

Name:

Serving/Retired

(If NOK state particulars of your relation)

Service:     Army/ Air Force / Navy

If Retired

Date of Commission/Enrollment:   

Date of retirement                   :    

Age at retirement                    :  

Total last pay drawn                :                                

Pension sanctioned                 :

Are you drawing DisabilityPension          : No

Percentage of Disability                                :NA

Are you drawing Family pension             :No

What Kind of Family Pension                 :NA

Educational qualification at retirement    : NDA                  

If Serving:

Number of Years of Service             :

Likely date of retirement (in Present Rank):

Likely age at the time of retirement:  

PART 2

(To be answered by Serving, Retired & Next of Kin)

Q1.      Please provide the following details about your family at the time of your retirement (Serving personnel to provide the likely details at the time of their retirement):-

Parents	Dependent	Age	Employed
Father	YES / NO	NA	YES / NO
Mother	YES / NO	NA	YES / NO

Children (specify)	Dependent	Age	Employed	Studying (specify)	Married	Special Child
Boy/Girl	YES / NO	15	YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Boy/Girl	YES / NO	10	YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Boy/Girl	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Boy/Girl	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO

Brother/Sister (specify)	Dependent	Age	Employed	Studying (specify)	Married	Special Child
Brother/Sister	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Brother/Sister	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Brother/Sister	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Brother/Sister	YES / NO		YES / NO		YES / NO	YES / NO
Do you own a house of your own				YES / NO
Do you own a transport of your own				YES / NO
Any Other Liability. Pl Specify				NIL

Q2.    Armed Forces personnel are compulsorily retired due to lack of promotional opportunities and cadre vacancies at an early age of 35-45 for JCOs/OR and 52 onwards for officers, unlike the civilian counterparts in govt service who serve till 60 yrs.

            (a)  Do you think a severance pay (golden handshake) be given to                         all ranks  retiring before 60 yrs.     

                            Strongly Agree / Agree / Neutral /                                                                  Disagree / Strongly Disagree

Such a move would make the Jawans pauper in no time with the inflation and poor post retirement job situation and a low rate of interest on investments.

         

(b)    At what percentage they should be compensated? (tick one for each age group):-

Age on retirement	5% extra	10% extra	15% extra	20 % extra	25% extra
35-40 Yrs
40 -45 Yrs
45-50 Yrs
50 -55 Yrs
55 -60 yrs

Q3.     At the time of retirement, the pensioner finds himself without a job and his personal responsibilities are mushrooming. Presently, pension is being paid at 50% of the basic pay, grade pay and Military Service Pay. In your opinion, what should be the pension, to live with self-respect (Tick the appropriate answer):-

            (a)  80 % of last pay drawn.          (b) 75 % of last pay drawn.

            (c)  70 % of last pay drawn.          (d) 60% of last pay drawn.    

           (e) No Change.

  

Q4.    Presently, Gratuity is capped at Rs 10 Lakhs. It should be authorised as per the number of years of commissioned/coloured service without any cap.     

                      

            Strongly Agree / Agree / Neutral / Disagree / Strongly          Disagree

Q 5.     Presently commuted pension is recovered at the rate of 8% interest as against the earlier figures of 4%. What do you feel should be the rate of interest charged :-

           (a)   4%.  (b) 5 %  (c)   6% (d) 7 %   (e) 8%

The rate is not material. The total recovery should not exceed the payment received. At present the recovery in 15 yrs is beyond the Commutated value received. It does not cater for inflation when working on recovery.

Family Pension

Q6.     Demise of the breadwinner is an unfortunate event leaving the widow burdened with all responsibility.  As of now enhanced family pension is admissible for 10 years from the date of death if in service or for 7 years or  till such time person would have reached 67 years of age (whichever is earlier) for a retiree. Does it need a change or enhancement?     YES / NO

Q7.      If yes, what should be the criteria (tick the appropriate answer)?

            (a)   Should it be same across the board for a minimum period of 10              yrs or until the individual would have attained 67 yrs of age                    whichever is later.

            (b)  Should it be same across the board for a period until the                                 individual would have attained 70 yrs since life expectancy has                  improved?

            (c)  Pension should continue until the actual demise of the primary                         Next of Kin.

Disability Pension

Q8.     For a 100% disability, what percentage of last reckonable        emoluments should be paid as the disability element :-

            (a)  50 %. (b)  45%  (c)  40% (d) 35% (e) Same as now (30%).

Q9.     The present disability pension is authorized to those personnel who have a disability of 20% or more. All individuals irrespective of the percentage of disability (when caused or aggravated by military conditions) should be granted compensation.

            Strongly Agree / Agree / Neutral / Disagree / Strongly                             Disagree

Disability pension needs to be paid in ALL cases and broad banding extended to all as the concept of arbitrary %age in disability does not change if he is invalidated or continues to serve. Case is SC already in favour of ESM. Similarly all disability including NaNa cases should get disability pension. Already a court judgment is there. Only condition to deny disability pension would be if the disability is a result of any activity outside the normal activity of the individual for instance a road accident when on leave.

Q10.   Constant Medical Attendant where authorized, presently is entitled Rs 3000 per Month. How much do you think it needs to be enhanced (tick the appropriate answer):-

            (a) Rs.20000 (b) Rs. 8000  (c) 7000   (d) Rs.5000    (e) No Change

This allowance cannot be a static allowance as the cost of hiring an attendant keeps changing. It must also be covered by DA.

Q11.    The allowance paid for constant medical attendant should cater for inflation by authorizing DA on the same.

           Strongly Agree / Agree / Neutral / Disagree / Strongly                     Disagree

Misc

Q12.    Are there any suggestions/ recommendations concerning pensions? Please specify in brief (attach separate sheet if required).

1. There should be a separate 'Defence Services Pay Committee' (as promised by the Prime Minister) with a major proportion of members from Defence Services/veterans  and judges from SC/HCs.
2. Ratio of 1000:416.50 between highest rank/post of military/civil pensions as it existed in 1973 be brought back.
3. Concept of Military Pensions based on OROP be restored.
4. Military pay scales reworked out for 5^th and 6th CPCs, carried fwd to 6th CPC, grade pays reworked out and then applied to the 7th CPC.
5. Military over all package of pay and pensions be 15-20% higher than any other Govt service. No defence person should draw less pay than other services for the same length of service.
6. Inter service  equation with other services be re worked out after all parameters have been applied.
7. Military status as it existed on 26 Jan 1950 be restored in all respects in pay and allowances and pensions.
8. JCO and below should be laterally absorbed in civil services on par with their seniority trade and training.
9. Re employed officers should not be employed in a lower vacancy.
10. In inter service organisations ?????????????? anything to add?
11. Defence share of 28-30% deputations must be strictly followed with seniority and lean with the parent service.
12. No def per should ever draw less pay or pension than his junior in rank.
13. Benefits given to other Govt services be automatically extended to Def pers ie 3rd career progression, Non Functional Upgrade.
14. Shortages of offrs be made up by attracting the most suitable youth to def forces by better  pay /pensions/service conditions/benefits
15. Short service commission cadre be increased to 60% of the strength and after 5/10 years of SSC service be laterally absorbed in other govt services ie IAS/IFS/IPS/Other Gp A Services with their seniority maintained.
16. The broad banding of disability should be applicable to all as it removes the element of subjectivity by a Medical Board.
17. Pay on reemployment should be fixed as per Ruling of Delhi HC in the Mr E Sreedharan case (Jist attached)

PART III

(to be answered by all Pensioners  or their Next of Kin)

Q13.    In the armed forces, you were used to a particular standard of living. With  the emoluments you received on retirement, comparatively what  standard could you maintain? (tick the appropriate answer) :-

           

 (a) Similar to that of prior to retirement. (b) About 75% of prior to retirement

 (c) Between 50-75% of prior to retirement (d) Between 25-50% of prior to retirement (e) Below 25% of prior to retirement

Q14. Was your wife employed (earning) when you Retired?

                                  YES / NO

I think this has nothing to do with an individual’s pension package and it is one’s deferred wage which cannot be reduced based on earning of his  spouse. She is an independent individual who pays her own tax. 

. Strongly suggested please do not mix this up with 7 PC.

           

 If yes pl specify the pay package:-

(a)  More than 25000. (b) Between Rs 15000 to Rs 25000.

        (c)   Between Rs 5000 to Rs 15000.        (d) Less than Rs 5000.

Q15.  Did you acquire any additional skill level while in service that could help in your job after retirement?  If yes, Please specify.                                                                 

YES/NO

Not at the cost of the government so why should this matter. In any case it has nothing to do with my deferred wages.

Q16.   The need for a job after retirement has become mandatory to lead a decent life after retirement.        

    

            Strongly Agree / Agree / Neutral / Disagree / Strongly Disagree

Q17.   At what time could you pick up a job (tick the appropriate answer)?

            (a) Immediately (within six months)   (b) within one year.

            (c)   Within 1 -2 years  (d)  2-5 years  (e)   More than 5 years

This is a variable depending on individual qualification as a result of service (Not personally acquired skills).Over the years things have become difficult and even a job at sea is now not easily available as in the past.

Q18.   When you scout for a job, how easy was it to find a job suiting your reasonable aspirations commensurate to your pre-retirement standing (tick the appropriate answer)?

            (a)  Very easy  (b) Easy   (c) Neutral    (d) Tough(e)  Very Tough

Q19.    At what pay bracket are you working after retirement?

         (a)  More than the last pay drawn. (b) Between 75 % to 100 % of last pay

         (c)  Between 50 % to 75 % of last pay.    (d) Between 25 % to 50 % of     last pay.(e) Less then 25%.

As a merchant naval officer I do not fit into any of these percentages but that job opportunity has now dried up and one has to acquire skills and papers to avail of the jobs unlike in the past and thus the Government has not helped but only brought greater difficulties in seeking jobs at sea.

  

Q20.   The present system of disbursement of pay through the PPO/Banks is adequate.

            Strongly Agree/Agree/ Neutral  / Disagree  /  Strongly Disagree

Without PPO being issued the system is in a mess.We are still solving 6 PC cases.

Q21.   Are you aware of your exact pension entitlements from time to time?          

YES / NO

With the amendments being made every now and then since 6 PC report most have no idea of the exact pension entitlements particularly widows and JCO and below.The adverts in the newspaper are very misleading and in past have given the impression that OROP had been granted.

Q22.    How do you come to know about the changes in entitlements or the rules/regulations:-

        (a) Through Zilla Sainik Board   (b)       Through Regimental Centers.

        (c)   Through Army HQs            (d)  Through Other Ex- Servicemen

        (e)   Through Media (mostly miss information given by MOD)                                 

        (f)  Other means (Please Specify). Indian Ex Servicemen Movement)        

Q23.  Are you affected by any specific anomaly while drawing pension? Please elaborate your case.

(a)        Majors with 21 yrs service have been given wrong weightage of 5 yrs against 7 yrs as stated by PCDA(O) in the court and hence they have suffered. This was done only to ensure that they do not get pension more than Lt Col(TS) and Lt Col(S) and hence gain for other ranks too.

(b)        There must be a lag in pension in case of Lt Col(S)/Lt Col(TS)/Lt Col (Maj with 21 yrs service)

(c)         All pre 2006 officers who were affected by the AVM Committee report when Lt Col were promoted after 13 yrs servicemust be placed at appropriate pension if they had the benefit of this accelerated promotion in 13 yrs.

(d)        At present officers are paid pension irrespective of which Arm or branch he belongs like F(P), Executive, ASC, Artillery etc but purely on his last rank and QS.  Same principle must be applied in case of veterans below officer rank and even if three groups are maintained due to their technical skills, ( some are more equal than others) higher of the three must be given to all pensioners and only one table for all ranks must be issued as easy solution which can be easily implemented by banks.

(e)        Responsibility of banks as PDA must be withdrawn and all three PCDAs of respective service must issue PPOs for VII th Pay Commission. 

(f)          ECS Payment of pensions must be implemented in a given time frame by PCDA

(g)        All Havildars and equivalent who complete 20 years service must be given new pension of Nb Sub. This should be performance based.

(h)        Time Scale Colonels must be given less pension than select colonels and equivalent ranks to avoid command and control problem at UNIT and Battalion level. Separate table be introduced between Select Lt Col and Select Colonels.

(i)          Non Technical Branches of three services must have one common cadre for promotions from Select Colonels and above. ( ASC, Ordinance, Pioneers, Education, Logistics, etc) AMC officers are selected on this basis. 

(j)          DESW under MOD must be manned with 75% strength from Uniformed Officers and veterans.

(k)        We must have liaison cell at each of the PCDAs with serving officers of the rank of Colonels and equivalent rank with appropriate support staff. 

(l)          All anomalies of the 6 PC as brought out by the service Hq must first be addressed by the 7 PC and then new measures suggested.

(m)      Any officer appointed in command must get a special allowance. This must apply to specified appointments which shoulder greater responsibility that an officer of similar rank. This should also be applicable to JCOs also. These can be defined by each service for all branches. When an appointment holder goes on leave the officiating appointment holder should get the appointment pay for his officiating period.

(n)        The layout of PPO must be standardized across the three services.

(o)        The peculiarity of Surg pre fixed ranks must be clarified in the PPO

Add On

When I was in RAW, I had noticed that officers from the Armed Forces, when re-employed in civil posts after retirement, were appointed in a rank lower than what they held before retirement, if there was a gap between the date of retirement and the re-employment. (This happened in the case of Brig NP Jyoti of Signals, who was employed as a Deputy Director) However, if they are serving in civil posts on deputation and reemployed immediately after retirement, they continue in the same appointment. (This happened with me, and several others such as Brigadier Y. Bhardawaj, SC Anand, Ujjal Dasgupta etc, all from Signals). 

However, in all cases, their salaries are fixed after deducting their pensions.

Strange as it may seem, this is not the case with officers of the Central Services. I had noticed that most of them are re-employed in the same rank. Most interesting of all, they get their salaries in addition to their pensions.

A few years back, E Sreedharan who built the Delhi Metro filed a case in the Delhi Court. In his earlier appointment in the Konkan railway, he had been re-employed after retirement from the railways. His salary was fixed after deducting his pension. The Delhi High Court upheld his plea and the Government was ordered to refund the amount deducted from his salary.

I sent several letters and RTI applications to various authorities including the CGDA, Ministry of Finance, MOD, DOPT etc, asking for the rules on the subject, but got no clear answers. Then, I filed RTI applications with various authorities asking for the names of officers of All India and Central Services granted extension of service and re-employment after retirement during the period 2005 – 2011.I also asked for the sanctions and the salaries. The applications were sent to DOPT (for IAS and IPS officers), Ministry of External Affairs (IFS officers), Department of Revenue (Income Tax and and Customs officers). The data was asked in respect of officers of the rank of Joint Secretary/IG/ Commissioner.

The replies I received are interesting. They clearly bring out that the IAS and IFS cadres are the Brahmins’, who get the best out of the Govt. Not only do they manage extensions, but when re-employed, *do not lose their pensions*. Almost all Chief Secretaries of States are given extensions based on a letter from the Chief Minister to the PM. The grounds for grant of extension, as contained in the sanctions, are interesting *(administrative exigencies, general elections, golden jubilee programme, enable newly elected members of Municipality to present the budget, rehabilitate flood affected people, preparation of report of task force on pharmaceuticals etc*).

.As for re-employment, there is no limit on the number and the period. No less than 18 officers of the IFS were e re-employed during this period, mostly as ambassadors. The number in the IAS is much larger. The DOPT website shows 65 secretaries, 21 Addl Secretaries and 21 Joint Secretaries who had retired were still serving in 2005. The numbers in subsequent years were 61, 13 and 22 (2006); 44, 6 and 12 (2007) and 27, 4 and 2 (2008). According the list received from the MEA, all the re-employed officers were drawing their full salary. (26000, revised to 80,000 after the 6th CPC for secretaries and ambassadors). Details of salaries drawn by re-employed IAS officers have not been received, but should be the same as for IFS.

According to the DOPT, no government servant is to be granted an extension beyond the age of 60 as per FR 56(d), except for certain exceptions such as the Directors of IB, RAW and CBI and the Secretaries of Defence, Home and Finance. Re-employment is also granted only for two years, with the pension being deducted while fixing their salaries. Why do these orders apply only to officers from the Armed Forces? If this is not discrimination, then what is?

Is this not a fit case to be taken up in the High Court or Armed Forces Tribunal? Can the RDOA or IESM take this on?

Maj Gen VK Singh